RECRUITMENT> Problems recruiting?

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:29:58 -0000
From: Howard Lake, FundUK list manager

At 14:22 17/03/2003 +0000, Julian Smyth wrote:

>At the risk of boring list members even more than I normally do, there have
>been at least two spirited debates on the topic of performance-related
>and/or commission payments to fundraisers on this forum over the last two
>years and I'm sure Howard could point you to the relative archive.

I regret that there are currently no archives for FundUK, and I realise
that's a big gap since past discussions could still be very useful to list
members. We used to have two sets online, one of which was maintained for
free by eGroups (subsequently Yahoo! Groups). Both services stopped
archiving FundUK a while back. Still, you can see what archives exist at

[url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/funduk/[/url]

Meanwhile, I'm very close to announcing an improved version of FundUK which
will include a searchable Web-based archive of everything that gets posted.
I do have a copy of *every* message sent to the forum since it started in
1996. Sadly they can't be imported automatically into this new system, but
they *will* get added over time.

More on the new system shortly.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Howard Lake
List manager of FundUK, for discussion of fundraising in the UK
[email]funduk@dircon.co.uk[/email]
Fundraising UK Ltd
+44 (0)20 8640 5233
FundUK is kindly supported by Netscalibur [url]http://www.netscalibur.co.uk[/url]
FundUK details [url]http://www.fundraising.co.uk/other_fr/lists/funduk.html[/url]
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 14:22:24 -0000
From: Julian Smyth

At the risk of boring list members even more than I normally do, there have
been at least two spirited debates on the topic of performance-related
and/or commission payments to fundraisers on this forum over the last two
years and I'm sure Howard could point you to the relative archive.

It's definitely one of those "light the blue touchpaper" subjects.

Julian Smyth
Principal Consultant, ASK Associates
Tel/Fax: 01494 447115
Mobile: 07798 826105
Email: [email]julian@ask.org.uk[/email]
Website: [url]www.ask.org.uk[/url]

Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:48:58 -0000
From: Donna Day Lafferty

Dear Amanda

I whole-heartedly agree with you with regard to performance related pay.
Even when you do your very best, fundraising is dependant on too many
external factors beyond our control. Then there are the internal factors
beyond our control. Will we also introduce performance related pay for
programmes staff, with penalties for not providing fundraising staff with
the project information needed to submit funding proposals on time?

No let's not go down that route. I work in this sector because of the
commitment and passion of the people I work with. I think performance
related pay would be counter productive. It would be far better to motivate
fundraising staff by getting them more directly involved with the programmes
and enabling them to have a greater say in how our organisations work.

D~

Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 08:24:12 +0000
From: Amanda Bringans

May I break the near suicidal pattern that has emerged in the conversation
about recruitment? I have worked for three charities over eight years.
All have been fantastic in their support and development of my career. If
something wasn't/isn't right, I would put a case together to change it. In
my view, this is the ONLY sector to work in, and I love it. Come on you
lot, get a grip. We have to work to change the bad things, not whinge.

A question - I have been asked recently about performance related pay for
fundraisers... I am vehemently against, but would welcome comments and
views. Thanks.

Amanda Bringans
Macmillan Cancer Relief

A list of trustees and directors of Macmillan Cancer Relief is available
for inspection
at our registered office, 89 Albert Embankment, London, SE1 7UQ

Registered Charity number 261017 Isle Of Man Charity number 604A A company
limited by guarantee Registered in England number 2400969.

Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 15:16:27 +0000
From: Zoe Hurworth

As a fundraiser for six years I can identify with all the issue that have
been brought up in this discussion and have on occasions thought very
seriously about leaving the profession.

Is there anything we can do as Fundraiser to communicate with our employers
better about these issues or is it just part of the job?

Zoë

***********************************
Zoe Hurworth
Fundraising Manager

T:01275 464031
E:hurworth@motivation.org.uk
I:[url]http://www.motivation.org.uk[/url]

motivation
Brockley Academy, Brockley Lane, Backwell, BS48 4AQ UK
T 01275 464012 F 01275 464019 [url]http://www.motivation.org.uk[/url]

Motivation is a registered charity (1079358) and a Company limited by
guarantee. Registered in England & Wales no. 3916496

Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:04:46 +0000
From: Janet Wright

Well, I have over 20 years experience and out of that only 6 were very
good years of employment for me. Why? Because I had not only the
responsibility but the authority and budget to raise money. I now
live in the north clear up in Inverness and haven't worked in fund
raising for two years. (haven't worked in two years) Today I was
starting to fill out an application form for a part time VSO position
and I just felt like it would be back to the same old same old. I
think I would rather be a receptionist.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:39:32 GMT, you wrote:

[QUOTE]A heartfelt "Amen" to this! We hear there is a radical shoratge of
fundraisers in London, but I could name several very experienced
fundraisers who are actively seeking new jobs, but who are living
happily in Northern climes and have no intention of moving smoke-wards.

Another major problem, however, is gross mismanagement of fundraisers,
which still goes on to a depressing degree, and has driven a good many
fine practitioners out of the profession altogether. I still hear of
targets being plucked from thin air, changing by the month or even week,
and of arbitrary exclusions of income from the fundraisers' credit.[/QUOTE]

These problems are endemic not only here in the UK but in the USA and
I suspect other countries, if not now.. soon.

Janet
--
===========
John Wright Findhorn, Forres, Moray
=========== Moray - Home of Malt Whisky

Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:39:32 GMT
From: Gerry Beldon

The message <200303131304.h2DD4kEN074878@lists.dircon.co.uk>
from Jeremy Sparkes contains these words:

[QUOTE] (5) inflexible working -- most jobs seem to require
100% attendance at the designated office, many of
which are in London; commuting is expensive, time
consuming and draining -- and for those 'out in the
sticks' quite possibly impracticable given the state
of railways/roads; however, many of the specs I've
seen don't need to be office-based; a more flexible
approach to remote working and/or job share would pay
dividends (yes, it needs more input to set up and to
manage but the rewards are potentially much greater
too)[/QUOTE]

A heartfelt "Amen" to this! We hear there is a radical shoratge of
fundraisers in London, but I could name several very experienced
fundraisers who are actively seeking new jobs, but who are living
happily in Northern climes and have no intention of moving smoke-wards.

Another major problem, however, is gross mismanagement of fundraisers,
which still goes on to a depressing degree, and has driven a good many
fine practitioners out of the profession altogether. I still hear of
targets being plucked from thin air, changing by the month or even week,
and of arbitrary exclusions of income from the fundraisers' credit.

The bottom line often is that this is not a nice job; dealing with
donors and volunteers is rewarding, and getting the funds flowing in is
a real buzz, but whatever goes wrong, it's the fundraiser's fault, and
there is only so much of that one can take.

This is not totally my own experience - I've had some good bosses, and
some good clients since independence - but I come across too much of
this through the Institute.

Cheers (Is that the right term???)

Gerry

--
Gerry Beldon MInstF
GERRY BELDON INDEPENDENT FUNDRAISING
phone/fax : 0191 251 6720 =/= mobile : 07976 405721
[url]http://www.beldons.co.uk[/url] =/= [email]gerry@beldons.co.uk[/email]

Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:35:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: Jeremy Sparkes

ho, hum, at the risk of forever damning any prospects
of future employment in the sector ...

having been in the job market on occasions in the past
5-6 years I've noticed a couple of things that have
been quite important to me in deciding whether to (a)
apply, (b) attend interview and (c) accept the job
(which has led me to turn down more jobs than I've
been offered)

if an organisation fails on several of these points
when trying to win an important resource (ie. a new,
valuable member of staff) then I tend to feel it's
possible it will fail in trying to win other valuable
resources (ie. donors and supporters) and feel less
warm about working there

admittedly, this is a based on a survey of one but may
pose food for thought

(1) lack of flexibility on dates -- okay, trustees and
senior staff are difficult to get together but if
you've already spent a lot of time and effort in doing
job spec, short-listing, etc, then being rigid on
interview days/times for someone who on paper seems a
strong candidate seems to be somewhat foot-shooting

(2) poor information sent out -- yes, annual reports,
job specs and glossies do arrive but in many instances
quite key and basic information such as a map, where
to park and whether or not travel expenses will be
reimbursed has been excluded or missing (would you
expect a potential donor to have to find this
information out for themselves if they were coming in
for a meeting?)

(3) 'curious' process of selection -- presentations
now seem to be beloved and range from quite general
things to very detailed analysis; on occasions, the
time between the info being provided (sent out using
2nd class postage) and 'performing' is very tight, and
is unclear how this part of it is being assessed -- is
it the ideas one has come up with, the background
research one has done, the actual presentation style,
etc -- and how do they know that the content is your
own work?

(4) lack of info on the day -- not arranging a tour
round the premises (okay, all offices look very much
like each other but not seeing where you'd likely be
sitting -- one place had no natural light -- can be
very important) and not being told about the rest of
the team, skills etc, and not being told what are the
key drivers for the appointment and failing to capture
the imagination of the candidate for the vision of the
organisation and the evidence for the fundraising need

(5) inflexible working -- most jobs seem to require
100% attendance at the designated office, many of
which are in London; commuting is expensive, time
consuming and draining -- and for those 'out in the
sticks' quite possibly impracticable given the state
of railways/roads; however, many of the specs I've
seen don't need to be office-based; a more flexible
approach to remote working and/or job share would pay
dividends (yes, it needs more input to set up and to
manage but the rewards are potentially much greater
too)

and just in case anyone's sat there reading this and
thinking, oh, well, that must be at the small end of
the market, all of the above have been true of major
national charities -- in fact, I think I'd go as far
as to say that smaller charities have tended to be
better about recruitment, approaching it far less as a
process and more as an appeal

and perhaps, therein lies in the key -- see
fundraising recruitment as if it were an appeal and
you were trying to reach potential donors -- you won't
always be successful but if you do find someone who'd
be valuable, don't run the risk of them saying no to
you (either through not applying/attending interview
or deciding not to accept the job)

Jeremy (now probably destined to be a pariah in the
fundraising job sector!)

Jeremy Sparkes MInstF (Cert)
83 Kimberley Road
Cardiff CF23 5DP

Tel: 029 20 491 286
email: [email]vandjsparkes@yahoo.com[/email]

Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:42:03 -0000
From: Peter Smith

We all have problems recruiting specialist skills in fundraising but
this is a very negative attitude. Surely a forum such as this should
look at the bigger picture and try to help solve the problem on a larger
scale.

Ask yourself why our industry has a negative reputation and poor
recruiting.

Is it more to do with:
- Poor training
- Poor career development
- Lack of self esteem

When I was a budding Marketing Manger for a range of wildlife charities
I was only allowed to offer micro salaries. This means I had to get very
clever with recruitment and training. What I did was to spend a lot of
time training up promising people in computer skills, databases, appeal
design and marketing theory etc. What is more is our duty to enthuse in
people the huge benefit that can be taken from our work and make
fundraisers value their profession. The long term benefit I derived from
this commitment to training far outweighed the cost.

Some of my proudest moments have come when one of my team left to take
up a senior position with another charity; knowing, that in a small way,
I helped the charity sector as a whole.

I have little sympathy for agencies or short sighted charities that seam
to be more concerned with parochial issues of head hunting when we
should be more concerned with internal recruitment and finding the
fundraising professionals of the future.

Peter Smith
Chief Executive
Wildwood Trust

Registered Charity No 1093702

Wildwood Trust
Herne Common
Herne Bay
Kent
CT6 7LQ

e-mail: [email]peeta@wildwoodtrust.org[/email]
Tel: 01227 713881
Mobile: 07986 828229
Fax: 01227 711900
[url]www.wildwoodtrust.org[/url]

.Wildwood Trust is Kent's Unique Woodland Discovery Park, a visitor
attraction with a difference.

Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:46:44 -0000
From: Karl Wilding

I am currently working on a project called Skills Foresight, which tries to
identifies skills gaps within organisations and skills shortages across the
sector.

Without giving too much away while we are still at the analysis stage, it
will come as no surprise that fundraising is a job role that has been
highlighted as 'hard to fill' quite frequently across our survey of 1000
organisations. We will publish more details in May, but I will try and
highlight issues in relation to fundraising skills/recruitment for the list.

Cheers

Karl Wilding
Head of Research
NCVO